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Hammerhead: Facts on missiles like you wanted

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 5 post(s)
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2005.10.13 00:03:00 - [1] Originally by: keepiru thats very steep. id say aim for 50% damage @ 4km/s with max skills, but i have to defer to people with more experience in interceptors here. Yes, if you want everyone to use them. Against interceptors, maybe missiles SHOULDN'T be good? Otherwise they'll smash T1 ships. "Corpse cannot be fitted onto ship. Only hardware modules can be fitted."
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2005.10.13 00:20:00 - [2] Edited by: Maya Rkell on 13/10/2005 00:20:51 I think I want some of your turrets. Because I sure don't get hit at that sort of range in my inty. (280's, frex, just MISS entirely). So no, I don't see anything but people whining because they can't instapop frigs now. Again. "Corpse cannot be fitted onto ship. Only hardware modules can be fitted."
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2005.10.13 03:06:00 - [3] Edited by: Maya Rkell on 13/10/2005 03:07:12 Originally by: keepiru Originally by: Maya Rkell Edited by: Maya Rkell on 13/10/2005 00:20:51 I think I want some of your turrets. Because I sure don't get hit at that sort of range in my inty. (280's, frex, just MISS entirely). So no, I don't see anything but people whining because they can't instapop frigs now. Again. That's why i took 125mm rails as example ;p Anyway, you have to remember that missiles will do the same whatever direction youre going. I mean, turrets will hit or not (or very little) depending largely on your transversal, missiles just go by velocity, direction doesent matter to them. You can approach a missile ship head-on in an inty and it makes not a jot of difference. Hence, I'd argue light should do some damage to an inty. It doesent have to be much, say 10% at 3.5kms? 10% @ km/s? I dunno, some token damage that says "this is an anti-frigate weapon, and since the missile rework it actually does what its supposed to". The problem here being there's no module that will help a missile track better, what you see is what you get, and what you get right now is below turrets by a chunk. Maybe im wrong, but eh. This is mostly academic for me, i dont use missiles very often... still, i cant help but argue about it ;p Btw, light were never able to instapop interceptors. They couldnt even catch up to them, so whats the relevance of that comment? Lol. You never stacked missiles then right? Or used a web. There were ways, don't pretend there were not. 125's won't do me much damage at 15+ km, in my Claw, as a general rule. Long range inty fire is, and should, be low damage. The thing is, missile ships have a long range, and one you CANNOT "get under". I can get close to a turret ship with those long range guns, and it's stuffed. The missile ship will keep hitting me. The Crow is a excellent weapon..either with rockets against interceptors or against larger ships with lights. Its inability to use lights as an amazing weapon (because it can still be effective in some situations) against interceptors isn't something I'd cry about. (And yes, I can fly them) "Corpse cannot be fitted onto ship. Only hardware modules can be fitted."
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2005.10.13 19:26:00 - [4] One thing, Assualts DO have a role, and a NEW launcher for close range cruisers (and bombers :P) would be appreciated rather than a straight replacement. "Corpse cannot be fitted onto ship. Only hardware modules can be fitted."
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2005.10.13 20:23:00 - [5] Edited by: Maya Rkell on 13/10/2005 20:23:05 No. They're BS weapons "Corpse cannot be fitted onto ship. Only hardware modules can be fitted."
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2005.10.13 23:13:00 - [6] Originally by: keepiru Yeah but, but... The bigger BCs are almost the same "size" as the smallest bs, and align slower... and the biggest cruiser is a whole 100m smaller than the cyclone. That's just wrong, k? >_< I shall turn on the tux-signal and complain loudly and articulately to him about it.. something like "omg that suckzce fixit plskthnx" sounds about right >.>; Yes, this is a good part of the "BS weapons smack down BC's even more easily than cruisers" thing :/ BC's depend on plates/extenders even more heavily than cruisers, so they're VERY much in the firing line :/ "Corpse cannot be fitted onto ship. Only hardware modules can be fitted."
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2005.10.14 13:02:00 - [7] Defenders are useless under 25km. Period. Because they have to go out, turn round and chase their target. Take them OFF rocket launchers and make them go STRAIGHT in and hit their targets. Then they'd be marginally useful. Maybe. "Corpse cannot be fitted onto ship. Only hardware modules can be fitted."
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2005.10.14 17:55:00 - [8] Edited by: Maya Rkell on 14/10/2005 17:56:41 Originally by: CCP Hammer More implants = good. Implants = easy content to create. New implants next patch = a promise from me. (p.s. the cruiser sized rocket/torpedo thing isn't a new idea. It's actually something we've talked about for years) Good :) How about the idea of using it on the bomber? And please make the cruiser short range missile a seperate launcher from the assualt..the assualt DOES have uses.. And yes, structure sig radius should be such that they take full damage from torps. "Corpse cannot be fitted onto ship. Only hardware modules can be fitted."
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2005.10.15 16:56:00 - [9] ...Remote Armour Reps "Corpse cannot be fitted onto ship. Only hardware modules can be fitted."
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2005.10.15 17:18:00 - [10] ...This is a MMO. "Corpse cannot be fitted onto ship. Only hardware modules can be fitted."
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2005.10.15 19:38:00 - [11] Originally by: The Wizz117 Edited by: The Wizz117 on 15/10/2005 17:48:45 Originally by: Maya Rkell ...This is a MMO. you dont seem to get it caldary special ability is MISISLES but missils are below average! No, you don't get it. I was refering to remote armour reps. But as you brought it up, How are missiles "below average"? (hint: torpedos murder another BS up-close) If you mean turret BS smashing cruisers, that is a long-standing turret BS/cruiser problem, nothing to do with missiles. "Corpse cannot be fitted onto ship. Only hardware modules can be fitted."
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2005.10.15 23:14:00 - [12] Edited by: Maya Rkell on 15/10/2005 23:16:02 Originally by: Wrayeth Originally by: Maya Rkell [ How are missiles "below average"? (hint: torpedos murder another BS up-close) Two things: Missile damage vs. smaller targets is ridiculously sub-par - a turret battleship will No. Turret BS can hit cruisers far too easily. This is a well known, long-standing issue. I am deliberately not commenting on the damage issue, btw, because I am not convinced either way. "Corpse cannot be fitted onto ship. Only hardware modules can be fitted."
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2005.10.16 03:18:00 - [13] 1. Agree. Wouldn't hurt to make them 25% larger or so across the board 2. Agree. 40 CPU is annoying. 3. No, FoF's are potentially useful under 25km, unlike defenders... (I suspect dropping a can still works) "Corpse cannot be fitted onto ship. Only hardware modules can be fitted."
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2005.10.16 16:37:00 - [14] Edited by: Maya Rkell on 16/10/2005 16:37:47 There is no problem with 'ceptors and fast frigates, under MWD, shrugging off cruise and torps. Their ability to engage from beyond 20km is negligable, and within 20km, nos, drones etc. can easily mess them up. If they remain outside tackling range, unable to close foe fear of missiles...that's fine, afaik. Rocket crows are still nasty. If you think a large turret is going to hit even a webbed 'ceptor... And ...does a Mega have a higher DoT? If not then yes there's an issue. If notm then the tanking changes are going to even things up. "Corpse cannot be fitted onto ship. Only hardware modules can be fitted."
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2005.10.16 18:40:00 - [15] The problem is the long range of lights compared to any other frigate weapons. Unless the flight time is cut to bring it in line, then light missiles simply cannot do "deacent" damage to frigates without them being THE weapon for ranged combat at frigate level. There is a similar problem at cruiser level with heavies. "Corpse cannot be fitted onto ship. Only hardware modules can be fitted."
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2005.10.16 19:46:00 - [16] Edited by: Maya Rkell on 16/10/2005 19:46:30 Naughty Boy, (on reading the graphs...) Would you then consider it fair to say that a Raven has a greater DoT than a Tempest however the initial delay in strikes for torpedo velocity means that above a certain distance, in a reasonable fight, the Tempest will have the advantage? That's my reading in any case. (PS Wizz, remember that after the patch, none's gonna be fitting more than 4 damage mods..) "Corpse cannot be fitted onto ship. Only hardware modules can be fitted."
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2005.10.16 19:59:00 - [17] Wizz...er... Yes, missiles damage is reduced by speed, but only over a certain threshhold. Incidently, turrets also have a threshold, relating not to absolute speed but to transversal velocity, over which THEY cannot track. Equally, sig radius affects larger guns against smaller targets, because guns have a sig resoloution, under which they lose accuracy. Firing a large gun at a small target is less effective. Missiles take an identical period to reload as projectiles and hybrids. Lasers switc more quickly, but that is one of their advantages. The Raven is NOT great at locking things quickly, no, but I would not rate the difference as major. And there is 1 sort of damage mod per turret type. So no, no "8 damage mods for turrets, 4 for missiles". Target painters DO have an effect for missiles, which can be pronounced. Note that other ships can light your target up for you... And missiles use cargo space yes, but so do hybrids and projectiles...and missile launchers use no CAP whatsoever. "Corpse cannot be fitted onto ship. Only hardware modules can be fitted."
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2005.10.16 20:49:00 - [18] Wizz, No, speed and sig radius affect missiles DIFFERENTLY. I do not believe there is any great imbalance in how they presently work. It's a nasty system, yes, but that's a different complaint. Shrug, the complaint that Ravens need to lock quicker may be valid. I do nt agree with any of your other points as being major. "Corpse cannot be fitted onto ship. Only hardware modules can be fitted."
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2005.10.16 21:00:00 - [19] Edited by: Maya Rkell on 16/10/2005 21:00:03 Snort. You keep bringing different things up Wizz. Unless you have new facts to produce - because these are well known points - they're just cluttering up the thread. PS, the idea that velocity bonus dosn't help cruise is funny. "Corpse cannot be fitted onto ship. Only hardware modules can be fitted."
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2005.10.16 22:16:00 - [20] ...that is NOT what I'm reading from the table "Corpse cannot be fitted onto ship. Only hardware modules can be fitted."
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2005.10.16 22:43:00 - [21] Wrayeth, Afaik, Torpedos and Autocannon should do roughly equal damage, and slightly less than pulse lasers, because they can change damage types and lasers cannot. Blaster damage should of course be highest, but the shortest ranged. That raven vs geddon chart looks quite reasonable to me, when you remember 5+ damage mods will NOT be an option after the patch. Looking at: http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b182/Naughty654/Chart01.jpg The 800mm Tempest has an 8% damage advantage over the Raven. The Dual 650mm is almost identical in damage. Blasterthron DPS outshining the Raven is a little decieving, mind you. The RAVEN has the advantage here, if the fight starts outside 10km, as it can pound the Blasterthron (and it can move radically away without affecting it's OWN damage in the slightest!) from beyond it's range. Torpedos not doing much damage at longer ranges...does not especially concern me, they are short range weapons. Comparing the 1400's to Cruise, the 1400's have a 2.5% damage advantage gun for gun, and are harder to mount. Certainly the 1400's will have an advantage in an extreme range fight because of flight time, but eh. I do not think any radical adjustments are needed. "Corpse cannot be fitted onto ship. Only hardware modules can be fitted."
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2005.10.27 20:18:00 - [22] And a heavy missile? You're comparing BS missiles with a Cruiser gun there. "Corpse cannot be fitted onto ship. Only hardware modules can be fitted."
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2005.10.27 20:57:00 - [23] Yes, fine, and the missile damage in that situation? What range was it? How many damage mods? Are your missile and gunnery roughly equal? What is the normal hit damage? (excellent damage is less than useful because missiles allways hit normally). Etc. Etc. If you're using it as an example, these things are important. "Corpse cannot be fitted onto ship. Only hardware modules can be fitted."
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2005.10.27 21:28:00 - [24] My point is that you really need to go out and do the test, if you're going to post figures. I do. Subjectively, I don't find cruise a bad option for my battleship given the lower fitting requirements (remembered that?) of cruise launchers compared to most heavy guns. "Corpse cannot be fitted onto ship. Only hardware modules can be fitted."
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2005.10.27 21:40:00 - [25] Not going to argue PvE. Lack of experience with missile ships in it. Grey Area, except that at ranges up to 15km, and against other BS, Torpedos are one of THE best weapons, given their ability to deliver massive damage to your resistance hole. If the sacrifice is that they're not good against anything else... (remember that I, like others, see BS's ability to blow away cruisers easily with guns as a problem with the tracking system) "Corpse cannot be fitted onto ship. Only hardware modules can be fitted."

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